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An Interview with Michael Moore
(September 30th, 2009 at the Ritz Carlton Hotel in Boston, Massachusetts)
“All my films could be called Capitalism: A Love Story,” says the infamous Michael Moore, when asked about why he decided to make his newest documentary an original film rather than a direct sequel to his 2004 smash-hit Fahrenheit 9/11. “You could call it a sequel, but whatever you want to call it, I just kept making the movie.”
In what could be argued as his most urgent film to date, Capitalism: A Love Story is Michael Moore’s desperate wake-up call to America about our current economic crisis. Well, then again, almost all of his films are wake up calls. But this time, Moore is tackling a subject that should garner him support from 95% of the population. After all, the richest 1% of our country has more money than the bottom 95% combined. Moore states that this “lacks democracy and morality.” He’s pointing the blame at capitalism. “Capitalism doesn’t work. We need a 21st century economic plan.”
Michael Moore is a very kind and respectable individual. When showing up an hour late for the interview due to a flight delay, he apologized a thousand times over and was still willing to answer every question thoroughly. So let’s dive in with an exclusive discussion with Michael Moore:
(Interview)
-You began making this film with the intention of making it a direct follow-up to Fahrenheit 9/11. At what point did you decide to make it a film about Capitalism?
Michael Moore: That’s what I told the studio. Because I knew they wouldn’t give me the money for it if it was about Capitalism, which is the thing that they actually, you know, are part of. And they didn’t see the film until about six weeks ago. So during the whole year-and-a-half they just sent me checks and I kept making the movie. It’s sort of like a sequel. Cause then they’ll like it (Laughs).
-Couldn’t all of your films ironically be called “Capitalism: A Love Story”?
MM: Yes. I’ve wanted to make this film probably for some time because I’m tired of making films about different pieces of it, GM, Healthcare, Halliburton, Oil, War, you know? And I thought this time I really should just go right for the heart of this thing and name it and that’s what I did. After making Sicko I decided that this is what I wanted to do.
-The film points a lot of fingers at the banks and big businesses. Do you not feel that individuals are to blame as well?
MM: As I point out in the film, and as the FBI has pointed out, is that 80% of this mortgage fraud was caused by the banks and the lending institutions. Not the borrowers, not the people coming to the bank, but the banks and the companies themselves. There’ve always been people living behind their means, you must have people in your family or people you know that buy things they shouldn’t be buying. That’s nothing new, that’s been around for hundreds of years. Those people don’t cause a crash because there’s enough of us smart people that don’t do that and so we don’t mess up the economy. Look, let’s say someone was cheating the bank by not paying their mortgage. They are other ways to get your money back. Garnish their wages. You can get your money back without kicking them out on the curb. I don’t want to blame the victim here because I think generally people have been victimized by these banks and these mortgage companies. It’s why I don’t tell you in the movie why those families are being evicted, because I don’t care why. I don’t care why because nobody should be thrown out of their home. I don’t want to blame the victim. I don’t ever want to ask, “How short is your skirt?” or “What were you doing on that side of town?” A woman has a right to walk in here naked and I don’t have the right to touch her. It doesn’t matter what she does, I don’t have the right unless she says yes. These people were victimized. Remember, the #1 cause of foreclosures in this country is medical bills. The #1 reason people lose their homes is because of medical bills. And if they pay the medical bills, they don’t have the money to pay the mortgage.
-When do you think Socialism became such a hot-button word?
MM: Well I remember because I was born in the 50’s so it was a big scare word. And of course it was scary to those who held the money because it implied that the money should be spread around, so they didn’t like that idea. They tried to demonize it as best they could. It didn’t help that you had, like the Soviet Union and China, taking what were probably some really good ideas, and then bastardizing them for their own purposes. You take something that is generally a good idea and it’s taken by people who mess with it and turn it into something else. But that doesn’t mean you should reject Christianity because of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. Or reject Judaism because of Bernie Madoff. Or reject Islam because of Osama bin Laden. I think it happens to any of these “-isms”.
-Did your views on Capitalism change at all while filming? And was it for better or for worse?
MM: Yes, as I was making it. Because when the crash happened I had been looking at Capitalism in terms of its lack of democracy, democratic values, and its lack of morality. But I hadn’t really considered the third element, which ended up being in the film, which is Capitalism…it doesn’t work. And they proved that when the crash happened and they went for the bailout and it’s against everything they’ve taught us they believe in. That the free market is to determine these things, that the hand of government is not supposed to be there to catch you, and there they were, asking for a bailout, asking for Socialism. So, it really ripped the clothes of the Emperor, and that I did not expect to have handed to me during the making of the film.
-As always, your films show a lot of shocking and revealing footage that have equal amounts of serious scenes and humor. How do you maintain the balance between the two?
MM: It’s hard. If you just pound people with all this depressing stuff, it paralyzes them. I don’t want people to leave the theater with a sense of “What’s the use? It’s all fucked. Why bother? Let’s go out and drink”. I don’t want that to happen. So the humor is there to act as that kind of release valve in the pressure cooker, so as you’re building up watching this horrible stuff you got to release now and then and just let it out. So I construct this in the edit room with that in mind and so there’s that even flow. Likewise, if it was all nonstop jackass, it might be funny once but I don’t know how long I could sustain the interest with political jackass. It’s almost as if it’s this political weapon of ridicule, sort of poking fun at those in power. I feel like we, as people, don’t really hold any power, so maybe that’s all we got, our sense of humor, sometimes to bring them down. So humor should not be dismissed as something that’s light or fluffy, it can be devastating.
-How does it feel to make a film that you know most people will be behind? Unlike your previous work where many did not get behind your films.
MM: That’s a good question. It’s a weird place to be because one hand you think it’s cool to be ahead of the curb, but sometimes I’m too far ahead of the curb. Like 20 years ago, nobody was willing to think about General Motors collapsing in out itself. My health care film was two years before the debate starts. My film about Bush didn’t prevent his reelection. But in the long run if you look at Fahrenheit, it was one of the first shots that was fired against what he was doing. People forget at the time that a lot of people who are against the war now supported it then. I was all-alone and it was not a friendly place to be. But what am I going to do if I don’t stick my neck out? This is what I believe in.
-On a lighter note, did you subject yourself to An American Carol?
(An American Carol is a conservative film that pokes fun at Moore's politics)
MM: An American Carol? (Laughs). I’ll tell you the truth. My buddy and I bought a ticket and I knew I had to see it because I really am a student of humor. And there are dozens of Anti-Michael Moore films made. Michael Moore Hates America, Michael and Me, Celsius 41.1--Seriously there are more Anti-Michael Moore films than Michael Moore films. I was actually thinking of starting a festival with all of these kinds of films (laughs). So I went into An American Carol and we were the only two people in the theater. And I was mad because they didn’t make it funny. It was so unfunny. It was so stupid. You know we are flawed people so if someone is going to make a movie about me, they don’t have to make it up. My real flaws are much funnier.
-Well, good riddance that the film bombed at the box-office.
MM: It was such a bomb. Because it was so horrible (laughs). You know, I demand a well-made movie attacking me! And this hasn’t happened yet.
-So do you think there is an economic solution? Do you have a solution?
MM: Yes, the solution is that we need to create a 21st century economic system. This Capitalism vs. Socialism thing is such a tired, old--I mean Capitalism was invented in the 16th century in Holland and Socialism is from the 19th century. It’s the 21st century, aren’t we smart enough to figure out a different way to structure ourselves economically than this way? All I ask is that however we do it that we have these two underpinnings attached to it. That “We The People” have a say, a real say, in how this economy is run, and that the decisions that are made stem from an ethical code. If I can get those two things, I’ll be pretty happy. I mean…I got a high school education so I’m not an economist. I can tell you what I see that I don’t think is working and put some ideas out there in general about democracy and morality, but people smarter than me have to figure this out. I’m a filmmaker.
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